Lady Pantheress Radio denebulae Interview june 2006

Why the name?

….we took nebula (“cloud” gas particles in space where new stars are formed ) and made it plural…nebulae (so we had clouds of mystery)…then we added de, because we are based in Holland (sort of “the” in Dutch), and then decided to always have a small (d) even at the start of a new sentence. The (ae) at the end also refers to “ambiental experimence”, which is what we do.

Also, deneb is a star (the 18th in brightness) which was part of the constellation pattern at sunrise on the Spring equinox 10,500 BC in Cambodia, where the temple complex of Angkor is built as a mirror to these stars. (deneb star is related to the Western Mebon temple). The Angkor temples were built with many 72’s and 108’s (as in Buddhist and Hindu cosmologies) and the word ..denebulae has nine letters (by the way, all of this has nothing to do with black magic, which has ten letters)….now, where were we ?….this is almost another Da Vinci Code and…….bet you wish you never asked ?

What's your first musical memory?

…crying in harmony…no, it was Welsh male voice choirs on the radio, Sunday evenings. My mother was a good Baptist, and there were no televisions in those days.

When did your musical talents begin to show?

At Primary school, when I was nine, the teacher was asking the class..”hands up for volunteers to take violin study”.. and I was absolutely against the idea. I sat at the back of the class and concentrated on keeping both arms down. After entering three young enthusiasts in her book she suddenly turned, pointed right across the room at me and said….”and you….you’re doing it too”. I still don’t know why that was.

What is your musical background

With the violin I was in the school orchestra, this was around 1964. Reading music was not my forte. If I got lost I jammed along with the rest. The conductor could always hear something weird but he never figured out who it was. Some of our concerts came over like Frank Zappa.

In 1965 my parents bought me an electric guitar from a hardware shop. Big mistake. As a lad I used to stay behind after school and watch the older boys
practice as a rock band (Overend Watts and Buffin went on to form Mott the Hoople).

Before you could say Muddy Waters, we formed our own Blues Band
and filled my mothers front room with drums and Martin Chambers (who is since then with The Pretenders).

By 1970 we were touring the UK as Karakorum, a psychedelic hippy experience, and I was known as Wah Wah Williams (as a tribute to Jimi Hendrix).

Since 1965 I’ve also been a songwriter (between the day jobs) and there are shelves full of demos in the attic.

What kind of equipment/software do you use? What instrument do you play?

Cubase in the computer as a “tape recorder”, a four track cassette recorder, we’ve got a few ancient bits of kit here under the table and one of the older Roland keyboards. It’s all a bit “Joe Meek style” here in the attic.

Now and then I’m playing guitar and also have a Turkish Saz which mostly remains under the bed just in case. (It’s a nice case). I also pass my hands across the keyboard, although it’s more like a seance than a concert pianist.

What is your writing/composing process? How do you go about putting together a new tune?

Years ago I read somewhere that if you write while playing, for example, a guitar or piano the result will be limited to your ability on the instrument.

Being unlimited is more of a challenge and so, a sort of trance state has been developed and there’s a lot of lying around being asleep involved.

Wu Chi, from the cd Zen Moon began by sitting in the park for half a day watching each leaf fall off one tree. The gentle floating and random flight of a single leave is translated into a descending melody.

There’s very much a real nature thing with denebulae, as in the music within flowing water, bird song, and so on….the universe is music…with denebulae projects we sometimes try to translate this “cosmic language” (for want of a better way to describe it) as in the zen koan..”master where is the answer to everything ?”...”it’s in the hedge at the bottom of the garden !!”

That’s us, we’re down there with our head stuck in the hedge….listening.

Do you have a favorite song you have written? If so why?

This is not easy to answer. They’re all nice in their way, like children.

I always enjoy the unwritten track best because of it’s potential.

Change is the only certainty.

A cup of tea with milk and two sugars is nice but if there’s no sugar than I’ll
drink as it is, so the idea “ favourite” doesn’t come into it.

Of the songs you've written, which was the toughest?

They are all pretty tough at the time, but then…a philosophy without sweat is no philosophy…….

“In the studio” is a process of discovering which “sounds” enhance the already
forming composition. It’s almost a physical wrestling with the equipment to fulfill the dreamlike musical vision. Sometimes I pace around the attic for ages and then try a sideways approach to surprise the keyboard.

The compositions on the cd Zen Moon involved six months doing Chi Gong everyday just to transform the actions into musical form.

I would like to point out that denebulae also has another composer on the team
and that’s Wanrooy in Amsterdam, who is very highly regarded although he mostly remains “behind the scenes”. For example, the tracks Orca Zone and Sensory Perception on the cd Sensory Perception are both pure Wanrooy , and we also have several co-compositions. I’m sure Wanrooy has other, unique, methods of composition, while I’ve been explaining here my own experiences.

What inspires you to write/compose?

We do it for the money, (much laughter in the background, someone just fell off their seat)…..well, it’s partly an unfolding of life's journey….the “way” of the musician….and after forty years we can’t really help it…it just happens.

What's the run down on your personal top ten tracks of all time?

Another poser, this one, I’ve always liked anything so long as I feel it’s good in it’s genre, or whatever the genre. So a great country and western song I can love just as much as a reggae track. I’ve got Django Rheinhart, for example, but also Loreena McKennitt….one of my favourites is a cassette I received while in Bulgaria, in the mountains, from an eighty five year old guy with a lovely white beard and his “musical thing” was whistling folk tunes into an old portable cassette recorder on the spot and then personally signing the cover with a pen and that was it…no record company…just buy this…

I hardly ever listen to music at home just for entertainment because the more silence the better, we’ve also been fifteen years without a television for the same reason.

Who are your biggest influences?

Obviously one is influenced by everything going on around you in life but musically I try not to listen to other artists before I begin each project.
Even when Ninewells Music International, my record company, sometimes send me example tracks, with all the best will in the world, to help me find “direction”…..well, sorry guys but they’re still on the shelf from five years ago and …haven’t heard any of them yet….it’s part of our “otherworld’ technique.
They’ll probably be on the phone to me about this….(more laughter in background)….sorry guys…Ninewells…a very sincere and “people oriented” team over there…..

If you could work with any one artist today, who would it be and why?

Kingley Ward of Rockfield Recording Studios, Welsh border, UK.
He was with the Charles Kingsley Creation in the early 60’s and I’d just love for us to do a cracking Rock ’n Roll number (maybe one of my own early songs).
With Martin Chambers from The Pretenders on drums and maybe Dave Edmunds with Rich Edwards…..and Paul Cobbold on bass….that would certainly shake the cobwebs out the ceiling.

If you could record a cover of one song, what would it be and why?

Well, I have the song Yesterday by Paul McCartney here in the attic already with a re-write of the lyrics ( what a nerve ) and it’s called…..Suddenly.
I’ve tried several times to get that to Paul for a listen but…well…you know…it’s not easy…..there’s another number one in America that we don’t have yet…..

Would you sign a record deal? If so, would you sign any deal or would you
wait for the right one?

I’ve been in loads of record company offices through the years in several countries and it’s like…well….what is the right deal ? We’re with Ninewells
at the moment and that’s cool…..

What's the most interesting feedback you've had about your work? What's the
most touching?

Maybe the fact that so many radio stations like what we’re doing. I’ve always believed that the music should speak for itself and no amount of bullshit will change that. One of the most touching moments was when one of my Dutch sisters-in law, Fennie van den Heuvel, came round to visit and we played her a new, rather sensitive, track, and she immediately burst into tears….it flowed out and I thought…well…..is it that terrible ?

Do you ever find it hard to deal with criticism of your music?

Absolutely, I’ll probably get criticised for saying that.

Are there any mistakes you've made as far as your music career that you
would go back and change if you could? If so why?

I’ve had several songwriting partners in the past who had difficulty telling me when one of our compositions was either in the shops or had won first prize in a songwriting contest ( for example ). My mistake was having a willing heart to work for nothing and assuming we would make it together over the last fence.

Was there ever a time when you were ready to throw in the towel and give up
on a career in music? If so, what kept you going?

Many many times… I remember arriving in Holland sixteen years ago in the middle of the night, driving on the right hand side of the motorway, during a thunderstorm in an old English car and I just had a sleeping bag, guitar, a four track cassette recorder and a box of old demos and I was leaving a destroyed life behind me.

It was a little crazy at the time and I thought….I’ll have to follow the music, it’s all that’s left…..

Do you play live? If not do you plan to?

Projects of denebulae are not easy to present live without good finance, unless as a sort of playback dj……would love to hear our tracks over stadium sound systems. Appearing live is difficult because there are always those few people at the back having a conversation and our “ambiental experience” is more suitable for a personal and calm, inner listening.

How's your experience with the net been thus far?

It brings us together on this little blue ball, without borders or politicians.

Where do you think you would be without the net?

Bothering our neighbours downstairs, saying here’s another one, you just have to hear this…..

How do you feel about the impact of Internet radio?

There’s a much wider choice of styles now, people can decide more what they like without the old marketing propaganda. Mind you, the propaganda is still there, and how, much more subtle but….hey…watch out for that one….

I’ll quote one of my old songs here if I may…

“..we don’t believe in propaganda…..at least…that’s what we believe..”

Are there any new projects in the works?

Yes….its a nebulous secret, we don’t even quite know ourselves yet…but there’s something out there for sure…we can feel it…..yes.

How would you categorize your music?

Well, of course we do our best to describe it for the market, but to be honest
even “music” is a difficult term.

Un-catagorical….denebulae

Is it difficult to find a healthy balance between family, work (if you have
a day job), and music?

I’ve got my partner, Annelies, without her none of this would be possible, endless cups of tea, made with love. I do also have day jobs in between to keep all this going and the music happens day and night, whenever, it’s just us in this attic, like living in an old wooden ship, stranded with a tape recorder….help….

What do you do when you're not recording or performing? Do you have any
hobbies or other artistic pursuits?

Walking in the mountains, which is not easy in Holland, we have to lean forward and pretend…..

Is there any advice you have for new artists?

Try to do your own thing, if we all continually do what others suggest we’ll end up with a bland soup….I mean, the reason why a garden is beautiful is “just because” the flowers are different colours…..each snow flake is individual
and that’s the spice of life….

Whenever you are rehearsing or performing or whatever, just do it with an intensity ….as if it was the last chance you’ll ever get to do it….it probably is.

It won’t be many years now before we are all artists and then we can gather in a stadium and watch an audience on stage….

Anything else you'd like to share with us?

A nice cup of tea, and…..whoever reads this, just thank you for being… wish you well……
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Thank you again denebulae for doing this for us.

Brightest Blessings Always,

Rob & Shawna
Lady Pantheress Radio